Posted By Fred Preller on August 22, 2006 at 08:11:59:
In Reply to: Oh By The Way, It Was Not LeMay! posted by Michael Faley on August 20, 2006 at 21:09:44:
: Oh by the way, It was not LeMay!
: Dear Mr. Gerald Astor,
: You are an esteemed Author with many accredited books and articles published over the years. Even though your book has been out for some time in both hardbound and paperback editions, one piece of information continues to circulate with potential long term negative results. On page 88 of your book “The Mighty Eighth, The Air War In Europe As Told By The Men Who Fought It” waist gunner William Flemming (303rd Bomb Group) is quoted as saying “ …we would have a general on board that day, Brigadier General Curtis LeMay”. The quote goes on to give the suggestion that Curtis LeMay said “Get us out of here! Get us out of here! Get us out of here...” during continued enemy attack from Me 109’s, FW190’s and flak. “We had a hot tempered flight engineer, our top turret gunner, Lucian Means…. Means finally cuts in and tells the guy to shut up or he’ll knock his teeth down his throat”! “What disturbed me and the rest of the crew, even though we laughed and joked about it, was when we picked up the Stars and Stripes newspaper and it had an account of him being awarded the Silver Star for leading this group back through enemy flack and fighter fire”.
: In the big picture it is easy to see how this half paragraph in a wonderfully crafted book was overlooked by many, including myself and my peers for many years. The problem is that authors John Nichol and Tony Rannell decided to use this same information in their new book entitled “Tail End Charlies: The Last Battles of the Bomber War 1944-45”. When these quotes were read to me over the phone by another gifted researcher, I decided to revaluate the information Bill Flemming had given to you. Bill is a distinguished veteran, like yourself and memories of events sometimes have a tendency to fade and get clouded with the passage of time. The facts below are not meant to diminish Bill Flemming or his wonderful service to our country in any way, but merely meant to clear away any of the cobwebs surrounding these events. Your book gives the target as St Nazaire and my research indicates the date was January 3, 1943. Here are the facts as I have been able to ascertain:
: On January 3, 1943, then Colonel, Curtis E. LeMay was Commanding Officer of the 305th Bomb Group at Chelveston. The Order of Battle that day, as described on page 116 of the 303rd Bomb Group unit history “Might In Flight” by Lt Col Harry Gobrecht, puts the 303rd Bomb group leading the 102nd PBCW. The lead plane, a/c 41-24619 GN-S for Sugar, contained Col J. H. Wallace (CO of the 303rd BG) as the pilot (not Glen Hagenbuch as Bill remembered), Capt. B. B. Southworth as copilot and the newly-appointed Brig. Gen. of the 1st Bomb Wing as a passenger. The 303rd BG website has the loading list for that mission and Bill Flemming is the Waist Gunner on this lead plane.
: There was a general on waist gunner Bill Flemming’s plane, per his recollection, but it was not LeMay. In the book “Iron Eagle, The Turbulent Life of General Curtis LeMay” by Thomas Coffey, on page 41 it states: “On the group’s (305th) second visit to St. Nazaire, January 3, 1943 (without LeMay)…” so that takes care of any LeMay references to flying the mission. A few general facts, no pun intended, on Curtis E. LeMay. He received his Silver Star on March 26, 1943 for missions flown over enemy territory. The award was presented at a dinner at High Wycombe (Pinetree) attended by Gen Eaker and Winston Churchill. On May 22, 1943 he received the British Distinguished Flying Cross from Sir Arthur “Bomber” Harris himself. Besides the American pilots from the RAF Eagle Squadrons, few Army Air Force men received this award. He became head of 4th CBW (later 3rd Air Division) in June 1943 still at the rank of Colonel. LeMay did not become a Brigadier General until September 1943 while still serving as CO of the 3rd Air Division.
: As for the question of his courage, to this day there is still no air combat leader more feared and revered as ole “Iron A..”. When he told his crews at the 305th BG they would fly straight and level with no evasive action on the bomb run over “Flak City” (St. Nazaire, November 23, 1942) he led the mission, and they followed! On August 17, 1943 he led the 3rd Air Division to Regensburg in one of the deadliest air battles of World War II. He knew every position in a B-17 and had to be ordered not to fly missions by Gen. Ira Eaker and Brig. Gen. Kuter to keep him out of the cockpit. The man had no fear and didn’t earn his nickname yelling “Get us out of here!”
: Like I said, events can get clouded after the passage of time and both Bill Flemming and General Curtis E. LeMay deserve our gratitude for the services they rendered defending our country. And as for the general that flew the mission with Bill Flemming, that is easy, it was Brig. Gen. Haywood “Possum” Hansell Jr. newly appointed CG of the 1st Bomb Wing!
: Regards,
: Michael P. Faley
: 100th Bomb Group Historian
: 100th Bomb Group Photo Archives
: 13th Combat Wing Historian
:
Mike,
This incident is recounted on page 104 of the Dell paperback edition I have. I had a devil of a time finding it, but I persisted. Thanks for the clarification.
f3
PS: 384th BG reunion 14-17 September in Washington DC - details on the website.